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Science vs Religion Part 6: The Art of Reconciliation

By: The Baron

[Part 6 in a multi-part series on Science & Religion from an LDS perspective.  Previous entries in the series: Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5]

Before we address some specific elements of the science vs religion debate, let’s first identify the idea of ‘reconciliation’. 

“Reconciliation” happens when someone is faced with two ideas and/or bodies of data that seem to contradict, despite some amount of evidence that suggests both are true.  When this happens, there are a number of possibilities:

(1) One side is ‘mistaken’ and can be abandoned in lieu of the other.

(2) Both sides have, in fact, a true basis but it is our knowledge about either or both that is ‘mistaken’.  Once the error in our analysis is located and one side or the other adjusted accordingly, they fit together without contradiction without having to completely abandon one or the other.

(3) Both sides are true, and correct as currently understood, but it is our speculation about how they fit together (or don't) that is wrong.  Where we assume they are mutually exclusive, but in reality they are not.  Additional knowledge of the ‘big picture’ often will, along with other pieces of the puzzle that fill in the gaps, demonstrate that those two pieces fit within the grand scheme of things in ways that we hadn’t previously anticipated.

The trick is not to pick #1, until you’re absolutely sure that #2 and #3 don’t apply.  Unfortunately, many people, when faced with contradictory information, are quick to grab one side as ‘correct’ and discard the other as ‘mistaken’.  The biggest danger in reconciling ‘contradictions’--whether scientific, religious, or other--is that one side or the other gets automatically discarded as ‘wrong’ without knowing the full picture.  Perhaps our knowledge of A and/or B just needs a little adjusting, allowing both to coexist with each other after all.  Perhaps knowledge of some unknown C or D allows us to understand how A and B fit together amongst many other independent components, without having to accept either one or the other.

Often religious believers will need to come to some sort of ‘reconciliation’ about a number of key questions:  How can God be omnipotent and love His children, but allow pain and suffering in the world?  How can a just God allow unbaptized children, or countless people living in China who never hear about the gospel, to go to hell?  Can a person be a prophet of God, and have more than one wife?

We should note that these ‘contradictions’ are not absolute over all religious believers.   Some religions have specific answers that address these concerns.  Even when not addressed by doctrine directly, some people still consider these contradictions to be more serious than others. 

Some have no conceptual problem whatsoever understanding why there might be great evil in the world despite God’s existence, for example, whereas for another this can be a cause of great consternation and a crisis of faith.   The fact that those two people live in the same world under the same God, with the same scriptures, yet have different opinions as to whether there’s even a ‘contradiction’ to begin with, shows that often issues of ‘reconciliation’ relate less to hard answers and more towards personal feeling and opinion.  It’s not a given that the first person has a greater (or a lesser) understanding of the particulars of an issue than the second—only that the first person has obviously found a way to reconcile this so-called contradiction together such that they are no longer particularly bothered by it.

Reconciliation is not necessarily about finding THE answer, but often understanding that there may be many possible answers--even ones that haven’t been proposed yet—any of which would resolve the ‘contradiction’ if true, and thus there’s no need to irrevocably choose one side or the other at this very moment.  Reconciliation frequently involves nothing more than a ‘wait and see’ attitude, where one decides not to make a final decision until all the facts are known.

To many, ‘reconciliation’ is a cop-out—a failure of that person to accept facts and abandon ideas that are *clearly* mistaken, but rather stubbornly struggle to come up with twisted explanations allowing them to have their cake and eat it too.  Note the presumption, though, that the 'mistaken-ness' of the idea in question is a given, not just speculated to be such.   If there's a possibility that it is, in fact, a correct idea that's been largely abandoned in haste from working with incomplete information, ‘reconciliation’ is not only acceptable but proper—showing a patience and an open-mindedness that will allow future discoveries to come without allowing oneself to be tossed to and fro by the winds of popular opinion.

The difficulty with 'reconciling' religious questions?  Unfortunately, there's little hard fact to go on when there’s so much currently incomplete information about God and the universe.  Reconciliation in these cases becomes even more dependent on personal belief and feeling, rather than clear answers.   It can, therefore, be very hard for someone to help someone else ‘reconcile’ two seemingly contradictory ideas together if they are dead-set on believing they are mutually exclusive.

One (former) religious believer may believe that if God truly existed there just plain wouldn’t be as much suffering in the world as they see every day.  Another believer may share their feelings with the first about free agency, or the “problem of evil” (etc), but there’s certainly nothing conclusive about any of these that would be compelling if the second is not naturally inclined to accept them.  In these cases, ‘reconciliation’ often means suggesting some possible answers that should be considered as part of the puzzle, but there's never a guarantee that from any one person to the next they will be accepted as reasonable explanations.

In this vein, the next few installments of this series will discuss possible ways to reconcile science and religion together in regards to specific questions.  None of this, of course, is meant to be conclusive as to how things really are, but rather possibilities as to how it could be.  Or, in other words, reasons why you don't have to abandon science in order to embrace religion, or vice versa. 

Whether anyone considers these arguments to be ‘reasonable’ or compelling explanations, of course, depends entirely on the individual.  The purpose is merely to suggest that there are other ways in which the supposed differences in science and religion can be reconciled together without needing to choose one or the other.

Next: Noah's flood

Print | posted on Tuesday, March 25, 2008 1:33 PM | Filed Under [ The Baron General Theology Science ]

Comments:

#1: Eric Nielson

Well done.

I think this attitude can be applied well in areas other than science or religion as well.

'Waith and see' might look like avoiding the issue, but it is often exactly what is needed when one does not have all the facts.

However, there are times when one must act. The idea of not procrastinating the day of our repentance comes to mind. As does the whole 'come unto Christ'. Acting on partial knowledge is a big part of faith. Thus we conduct our experiments both scientific and religious and examine the results. But it may be the absolute conclusions which cause us trouble.

You are laying things out in what I feel is a very clear, logical and systematic way.
3/25/2008 3:14 PM

#2: Sumner Carlson

Quite disturbing to pit science against religion. Science has its methodology and is in search of finding verifiable facts. Religion is a spiritual approach to thinking about and becoming closer to God.

One concept has nothing to do with the other, they cover tow completely different needs of the human experience. Therefore, science and religion are never in competition.

And in religion, only those who have a hard time to believe feel an urge of having to prove.
3/25/2008 10:29 PM

#3: Jack

Sumner Carlson,

I wish it were that clean a divide. Unfortunately, it seems that both sides have a way of promulgating their own brand of fundamentalism. The fire of religious fundamentalism is fanned by the notion that it is approved of God and therefore a good thing. On the other hand, scientific fundamentalism sees itself only as a valiant effort to uphold rationalism rooted in factual evidence--it doesn't see itself as fundamentalism. And so both are plagued by their own peculiar brand of blindness. As such, discourse between the two is virtually impossible.
3/26/2008 9:42 AM

#4: Jack

I should clarify...

A cordial discourse which respectfully allows the other to thrive in it's own space.
3/26/2008 9:46 AM

#5: kristine N

Jack--as a religious scientist, I'm going to cordially disagree with you about science being fundamentalist specifically because nobody thinks science is inerrant, while the root of religious fundamentalism is that X religion is inerrant. Most scientists I know don't believe in the supernatural, but most are at least respectful of those who do, even while disagreeing. It's not a question that can be resolved scientifically. Richard Dawkins can go on as much as he wants about religion being wrong. You just can't disprove one with the other.
3/26/2008 12:59 PM

#6: Jack

kristine N,

I think many folks--if not most--who believe in God are respectful of those who disagree with them. Remember, I'm talking about fundamentalism *in* the scientific or religious community. I'm not claiming that one or the other must always lead to fundamentalism--though there are such tendencies in both.

IMO, Richard Dawkins and a whole slew of like-minded atheists are in the scientific fundamentalist camp. One not need be a certified scientist in order to fall into that camp anymore than a religious fundamentalist need be a credentialed theologian.
3/26/2008 4:46 PM

#7: Sumner Carlson

Jack,

Thanks for your response and I know where you are coming from. I agree that there cannot be dialog between fundamentalists because, by definition, they are so stuck in their narrow-minded views of the world that they are no more open to actual arguments.

Instead of futile attempts to bring fundamentalists together, the discussion needs to be about seeing the forest despite My point was that there need not be dialog between camps that play different games. It's like fielding Hollywood actors and baseball players to play chess against each other, just because both groups are well known.

In other words, religion is for the soul and science is for the mind. It is irrelevant for religion whether it is based on historic truth or not. What counts is what it does for the soul of the people who have chosen that particular religion. Science, on the other hand, is not for the soul but for the mind only. It is about verifiable facts.

Let's put it yet differently: if religions were about verifiable facts only, there would be no religions. Not a single religion can prove that it is "the" one, let alone prove all of its claimed historic "facts". Yet religions do people good, when they search for comfort for the soul. Does science do that? No. Can science do that? No. Should science do that? No, it serves a different purpose.

Religions should not be concerned with facts: they will never prove that they are right or better or more right than others. Their purpose is to comfort people. And they inherently have problems with facts. They induce facts, and redefine the rules when the facts don't fit the dogma, belief, you name it.

So why pit people who talk about different things on different levels artificially against each other. It only leads to divisiveness and it makes no sense. It helps finance fundamentalist groups by artificially fanning anger about trees by leading people to become unable to see the forest.
3/26/2008 8:26 PM

#8: The Baron

There's a difference between 'being able to prove you're right', and 'being proven right'. Religious believers may not be able to 'prove' the existence of God any more than others can disprove it. Doesn't mean the existence of God is unrelated to 'fact'--God exists or He doesn't. If in the end mankind discovers (after death) that a great many religious truths are proven right (God's existence, spirits, etc...), not by science or argument, but by the natural course of human existence beyond the grave, how can you then argue that religion has no relevance in this world to 'fact'?

The facts are the same whether they're evident at present or not--that's what 'fact' or 'truth' means...
3/26/2008 9:31 PM

#9: BC

Accepting the unproven as fact is where science and religion break. That God exists may be a fact, but it is not proven and has no verifiable evidence. In the scientific realm it is not a fact and should not be treated as one. When science allows such ‘facts’ into its thinking it falters.

That religion is so fond of redefining ‘fact’ and ‘evidence’ make it suspicious to the scientific mind. When science fights this erosion of definition they are labeled ‘dogmatic’ or ‘fundamentalist’.
3/27/2008 11:46 AM

#10: Sumner Carlson


BC has got it exactly right.

On the one hand, there is religion. It is about the unprovable, hence the term "believer". Science, on the other hand, is about the provable.

Most people are perfectly able to separate those. When Mitt Romney makes a business decision, it is not based on his beliefs but on provable facts. When he goes to church, he simply believes. His head does not explode, he seems to be very well capable of living with this dichotomy.

Both can co-exist. So why make a big deal out of this when it is a quagmire:

Religion is intrinsically about the unprovable. Science is intrinsically about the provable. They cannot meet.

Even more complicating is the fact that there are so many religions with different beliefs. Is God just playing games with us? Or does He allow different people different access to Him?

Imagine if we could prove that there was a life after death? The whole world would run amok and who would care much about using the time in the worldly existence to do good.

So the discussion about science vs. religion is interesting but futile. Only fools get emotional about it and will end up giving their hard-earned money to some special interest group.
3/29/2008 6:10 PM

#11: Jeff G

Baron,

I think I am finally able to articulate the objections which I have had with your posts through out this series, though it may take a little space to get it out. If you can respond convincingly to this objection, then I think you will be in pretty good shape.

I can envision three different kinds of reconciliation between science and religion:

1. Logical compatibility: Neither one of the two disproves the other, even though they may speak against each other such that they cast doubt upon and/or to some extent disconfirm each other.

2. Independent Neutrality: Science and religion are logically compatible with each other such that neither one of the two disproves the other. Furthermore, while neither one supports or confirms the other, they do not cast doubt upon or disconfirm each other either.

3. Symbiosis: Science and religion are not only logically compatible with each other, but mutually reinforce, support and confirm each other.

Now most of my doubt to your posts, from my perspective have been as follows: In your posts you defend a thesis which does support 1, but does not seem strong enough to support 2. (I haven't been holding out for 3 thus far.) In and of itself, this may not be too bad.

While there certainly remains a some amount of tension between science and religion in 1, it is a reconciliation all the same. While the problems which I have with 1 do have to do with that unresolved tension, there are other problems which I see. To be specific, I have problems with the way in which you argue for 1.

As I have pointed out in other threads, there seem to be two ways of interpreting religion. The first is on its own terms and then waiting until after the interpretive process to seem if it is compatible with science or not. I think you see that this method will likely fall short of 1, so you do not endorse it.

The other way is to use you understanding and knowledge gained from science as a tool which we can use to interpret religious claims. With this, you certainly seem to be able to defend 1, although I think 2 is still a bit out of reach.

Now here is the rub. In order to us to use science as a tool with which to interpret religious claim without being accused of ad hoc finagling we need some independent reason for doing this. This reason, I suspect you will say, can be found in the unity of truth; all truths will be compatible with each other, regardless of their source. This, I would suggest is the old Enlightenment doctrine of gaining truth from reading both the book of revelation as well as the book of nature. The problem is that this same reason seems to support 3, not 1. If all truth is one, we should not expect there to be a tension between the two sources of truth.

Thus we are left with the following conundrum: Defending 2 or 3 seems too difficult. Defending 1, a significantly less satisfying thesis to begin with, is possible but may rely upon ad hoc reasoning. The most plausible way to avoid the charge of ad hoc reasoning, however, simultaneously casts doubt on 1. It thus becomes difficult to see how your enterprise can get off the ground.
3/31/2008 9:37 PM

#12: Clark Goble

If (2) requires that no doubt be cast then of course that's very difficult. Especially if given an expansive definition of either science or religion or even Mormon religion. If we mean by (2) simply that while we may doubt a particular current theory in either but believe that eventually we'll reach a correct theory then there is no problem, I think.

I'm not sure we should want (2) though. Afterall if we are inquiring and if neither religion nor science are yet fully correct we should expect to have doubts raised. Heavens. Science raises doubts on itself.


4/1/2008 8:52 PM

#13: Clark Goble

Sumner, your claim that religion is about what's unprovable and science about is what is provable seems problematic. If we mean provable now then it's hugely problematic. String theory and Loop Quantum Gravity are considered by most to be science. Yet there is no even theoretical way of proving them. Further many philosophers of science would say that science can prove nothing and that proof applies, even inductively, only to mathematics. Likewise in religion there's lots of things we can prove. If I have constant visitations by an angel I think I've proven the reality of angels, for instance.
4/1/2008 8:54 PM

#14: Sumner Carlson

Clark, it is hard to follow your train of thought. Could you elaborate? What are the lots of things that "we" can be can prove? And who are "we"?
4/2/2008 10:55 PM

#15: Clark Goble

We meaning you and I as we engage in the dialog.

The point is that many philosophers of science and scientists say that science can't prove anything. It's not about proof since science deals in induction. Proof is all about deduction or moving from premises to conclusions of necessity.

The point is that either we use "proof" loosely such that it means "made very believable" or else we mean it in a more technical sense of something close to certainty. If we mean "made very believable" then of course religion can do that also.
4/3/2008 3:15 PM

#16: Nemesis

I disagree that religion can prove anything in that it can make something very believable. It's all a matter of faith, no matter how strongly you believe, you can't show another person the physical manifestation of a deity, you can't show others a resurrected Jesus, you can't show others that same angel who visited you, or even show that the afterlife exists, etc.

You have not proven the reality of angels to me, even if you have constant visitations. You have only reinforced your own faith in their existence.

Science has theories and deductions and the conclusions can be made to happen by anyone who creates the same conditions and runs the same tests.

Futurific scientific theories...those things that can't be seen or proven yet, but can be extrapolated from the data...they are the one area where faith and science intersect, I think. The difference is that many of these futurific theories have eventually been proven over time, as technology improves, while our religious beliefs require that we wait for our earthly deaths, before we will be able to "prove" we were right.

4/19/2008 5:27 PM

#17: Sumner Carlson


Clark,

I think you got it totally wrong. Of course, we can dilute all thought until it is meaningless. But that does not advance anybody.

Religion provides fodder for the soul, science provides fodder for the intellect.

If I follow what you wrote in your post, all thought and all effort to understand the world in which we live in is totally meaningless. We might as well sit back and not think.

Religion can provide beliefs, but science provides knowledge. Knowledge is something that can be improved in an iterative process in order to further knowledge. Religion cannot provide that, since all religions are stuck with what the original story was. Questioning that story would make the religion fall apart. In science, questioning a premise might make a hypothesis fall apart, but in its stead a new, more powerful and better hypothesis that is more useful to mankind will be formulated.

I have never seen an improved religions that thrives to keep improving itself, have you?

Do you question Joseph Smith every day so that you find better answers than he did? Will you challenge Thomas S. Monson on his statements and beliefs in a quest for a better understanding of the universe? Would the President of the Church appreciate that?
4/20/2008 9:59 PM

#18: Lincoln Cannon

As described by Joseph, we cannot come out true Mormons unless we're prepared always to accept truth from whatever source. So far as I'm concerned, that means we should use the best epistemic methods, including science, available to us in each particular context. Joseph claimed that many great and important things were yet to be revealed. I couldn't agree more, and anticipate many of them coming from science -- although it's inaccurate to think science, in itself, can provide all forms of knowledge, such as that relating to esthetics and ethics.
4/23/2008 1:45 PM

#19: Sumner Carlson


Lincoln,

I couldn't agree more. I am 72 now. During my lifetime a few things that Joseph said were proven wrong.

That does not mean we need to throw our way of life over board.

But can we claim Truth? No, I don't think so, because we have no proof and a source that has been proven wrong on revelations.

Still, Mormonism gives me the fodder for the soul that I need and that I am used to. That is all I need from my religion.

The Church and doctrine only evolved when it had to due to outside pressures. Rarely from the inside. That is more disappointing. Some of the inaccuracies of Joseph's word just cannot be explained, and I am disappointed by that.
4/23/2008 3:37 PM

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